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	<title>Comments on: Feisty Is Great, But It Is Still Beta</title>
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		<title>By: FredB</title>
		<link>http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/comment-page-1/#comment-1897</link>
		<dc:creator>FredB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2007 12:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/#comment-1897</guid>
		<description>Ok, dean. You&#039;re right. But this kind of problem so close to official release date smell bad. Very bad.

If it goes this way, feisty will be the worst release since birth of ubuntu. Too bad for it, but having a really stable system since beta release and such a rotten package a few day before release date could disgust a lot of people, thinking that even if it is a beta, ubuntu could be completely crappy software.

I personnaly decided to skip this release, and I think I will either stay with etch or move to archlinux, gentoo or any other distro.

Feisty for people like Greg should be a &quot;no thank you&quot;. For me too. And it is sad to say so.

Maybe BSD world will be more interesting to use than linux one in the next few months ?

Anyway, good luck to ubuntu users and developers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, dean. You&#8217;re right. But this kind of problem so close to official release date smell bad. Very bad.</p>
<p>If it goes this way, feisty will be the worst release since birth of ubuntu. Too bad for it, but having a really stable system since beta release and such a rotten package a few day before release date could disgust a lot of people, thinking that even if it is a beta, ubuntu could be completely crappy software.</p>
<p>I personnaly decided to skip this release, and I think I will either stay with etch or move to archlinux, gentoo or any other distro.</p>
<p>Feisty for people like Greg should be a &#8220;no thank you&#8221;. For me too. And it is sad to say so.</p>
<p>Maybe BSD world will be more interesting to use than linux one in the next few months ?</p>
<p>Anyway, good luck to ubuntu users and developers.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean</title>
		<link>http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/comment-page-1/#comment-1896</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2007 04:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/#comment-1896</guid>
		<description>Paul: Of course the development version QA is different from an actual released version.

I&#039;m not entirely sure but I suspect that the criteria for putting an updated kernel into the archives during development is &quot;it works for me&quot;, perhaps this late they get  wider testing inside the kernel team (~4 people) first. 

For final release nearly every paid ubuntu developer, lots of the community developers and lots of the general community test the proposed release on lots of machines.

It&#039;s also taken for granted that people using a &#039;beta&#039; product should be aware of the risks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul: Of course the development version QA is different from an actual released version.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not entirely sure but I suspect that the criteria for putting an updated kernel into the archives during development is &#8220;it works for me&#8221;, perhaps this late they get  wider testing inside the kernel team (~4 people) first. </p>
<p>For final release nearly every paid ubuntu developer, lots of the community developers and lots of the general community test the proposed release on lots of machines.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also taken for granted that people using a &#8216;beta&#8217; product should be aware of the risks.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul McGarry</title>
		<link>http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/comment-page-1/#comment-1894</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul McGarry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/#comment-1894</guid>
		<description>The real question for me is whether the release QA procedures for the development version are different from stable versions (which is reasonable) and if that is the case whether the release QA procedure for a stable release would have caught the problem before it went live?

I don&#039;t really care about the particular problem occurring in a beta because that is the chance you take. It doesn&#039;t happen often but it does happen often enough that if you beta test things for any length of time you will get bitten every now and then.

Apart from any QA lessons maybe the only other lesson on offer is user expectation management?

Perhaps the &quot;Software updates correct errors, eliminate security vulnerabilities and provide new features.&quot; text in Update Manager could be changed in beta versions.

Maybe something like:

&quot;This is a development version of Ubuntu. Updates may introduce new errors as development continues.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real question for me is whether the release QA procedures for the development version are different from stable versions (which is reasonable) and if that is the case whether the release QA procedure for a stable release would have caught the problem before it went live?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really care about the particular problem occurring in a beta because that is the chance you take. It doesn&#8217;t happen often but it does happen often enough that if you beta test things for any length of time you will get bitten every now and then.</p>
<p>Apart from any QA lessons maybe the only other lesson on offer is user expectation management?</p>
<p>Perhaps the &#8220;Software updates correct errors, eliminate security vulnerabilities and provide new features.&#8221; text in Update Manager could be changed in beta versions.</p>
<p>Maybe something like:</p>
<p>&#8220;This is a development version of Ubuntu. Updates may introduce new errors as development continues.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Greg M. Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/comment-page-1/#comment-1893</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg M. Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/#comment-1893</guid>
		<description>1) Thanks that ubuntu exists at all and is giving away software for free.

2) Use of stuff in beta is going to be a bumpy road.

3) Please, oh please, stop them from using the word &quot;release&quot; or even planning a date until they get the wireless back to the perfect functionality which was seen in 6.10.  It has been horribly broken for WEP encryption.   6.10 had fall-out-of-bed functionality for wifi; 7.04 continues to be broken, and encrypted wifi is how many folks are going to be getting updates.  It is the CD-ROM drive of this decade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Thanks that ubuntu exists at all and is giving away software for free.</p>
<p>2) Use of stuff in beta is going to be a bumpy road.</p>
<p>3) Please, oh please, stop them from using the word &#8220;release&#8221; or even planning a date until they get the wireless back to the perfect functionality which was seen in 6.10.  It has been horribly broken for WEP encryption.   6.10 had fall-out-of-bed functionality for wifi; 7.04 continues to be broken, and encrypted wifi is how many folks are going to be getting updates.  It is the CD-ROM drive of this decade.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Mansell</title>
		<link>http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/comment-page-1/#comment-1892</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Mansell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/#comment-1892</guid>
		<description>This is exactly why I don&#039;t use Ubuntu in it&#039;s Beta (or RC, or whatever symantics you want to use) form.  I&#039;m impatiently waiting for April 19th for the actual release.  And I thought I was being forward thinking by not sticking with the LTS of Dapper until the next LTS came out.  I did, however, use the Beta of Firefox 2 and IE7 on my Windows machine at work, however, when they were out.  I just don&#039;t see me doing that with a whole operating system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is exactly why I don&#8217;t use Ubuntu in it&#8217;s Beta (or RC, or whatever symantics you want to use) form.  I&#8217;m impatiently waiting for April 19th for the actual release.  And I thought I was being forward thinking by not sticking with the LTS of Dapper until the next LTS came out.  I did, however, use the Beta of Firefox 2 and IE7 on my Windows machine at work, however, when they were out.  I just don&#8217;t see me doing that with a whole operating system.</p>
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		<title>By: mathew</title>
		<link>http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/comment-page-1/#comment-1891</link>
		<dc:creator>mathew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/#comment-1891</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I tried the RC1 CD and ended up with an unbootable system. What concerns me is that my bug report (Bug #102070) hasn&#039;t been evaluated or assigned. I just don&#039;t see how the OS can be ready for release next week with bugs like that apparently still in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I tried the RC1 CD and ended up with an unbootable system. What concerns me is that my bug report (Bug #102070) hasn&#8217;t been evaluated or assigned. I just don&#8217;t see how the OS can be ready for release next week with bugs like that apparently still in it.</p>
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		<title>By: JW</title>
		<link>http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/comment-page-1/#comment-1890</link>
		<dc:creator>JW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/#comment-1890</guid>
		<description>I fell into this kernel issue as well.  I did my dist-upgrade last night and mucked around for a couple hours this morning to figure out the problem (I&#039;m enough between newbie and expert to fiddle around that much).

I will be a nit and point out that the release schedule has Kernel Freeze on APR-5 and Release Candidate on APR-12.  Having a show-stopping kernel updated AFTER kernel freeze is a big mistake; it should never have made it past QA (how DOES that get past QA anyway...?).  If the kernel was that botched that it needed to be updated, the schedule should have slipped to accommodate more/better testing.

That being said...
1. I booted to the previous kernel (let&#039;s see anyone do that in Windows!)
2. I grabbed the updated kernel today and will try it later (still running on the previous right now)
3. HOORAY UBUNTU for turning around a fix in 18 HOURS!!!  This is a key reason why I like Ubuntu.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fell into this kernel issue as well.  I did my dist-upgrade last night and mucked around for a couple hours this morning to figure out the problem (I&#8217;m enough between newbie and expert to fiddle around that much).</p>
<p>I will be a nit and point out that the release schedule has Kernel Freeze on APR-5 and Release Candidate on APR-12.  Having a show-stopping kernel updated AFTER kernel freeze is a big mistake; it should never have made it past QA (how DOES that get past QA anyway&#8230;?).  If the kernel was that botched that it needed to be updated, the schedule should have slipped to accommodate more/better testing.</p>
<p>That being said&#8230;<br />
1. I booted to the previous kernel (let&#8217;s see anyone do that in Windows!)<br />
2. I grabbed the updated kernel today and will try it later (still running on the previous right now)<br />
3. HOORAY UBUNTU for turning around a fix in 18 HOURS!!!  This is a key reason why I like Ubuntu.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/comment-page-1/#comment-1889</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/#comment-1889</guid>
		<description>Till the day it is officially release Feisty is development software, meaning you should not blame the developers when something goes wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Till the day it is officially release Feisty is development software, meaning you should not blame the developers when something goes wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Jorge Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/comment-page-1/#comment-1888</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/#comment-1888</guid>
		<description>I also suffered from this problem after my update this morning. The just updated kernel was not working. It was easy to see [1] using the busybox shell that /dev/disks/by-uuid was not there, causing the problem. No problems, just restarted and booted using the previous installed kernel. The previous kernel is always at hand at the boot prompt and is never uninstalled after an upgrade.

I have just read the discussion at Launchpad which is filled with nonsenses, considering Feisty is &quot;still&quot; beta. Kernel bugs so close to release does not make me happy, but it is something you should expect. Fortunately, we have Ben to put things in place so efficiently (thanks Ben).

I do not have a cat, but not-yet-released software have kicked by dog some times... poor boy.

[1] ... easy for an experienced Linux user which feels comfortable with the command line and device files.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also suffered from this problem after my update this morning. The just updated kernel was not working. It was easy to see [1] using the busybox shell that /dev/disks/by-uuid was not there, causing the problem. No problems, just restarted and booted using the previous installed kernel. The previous kernel is always at hand at the boot prompt and is never uninstalled after an upgrade.</p>
<p>I have just read the discussion at Launchpad which is filled with nonsenses, considering Feisty is &#8220;still&#8221; beta. Kernel bugs so close to release does not make me happy, but it is something you should expect. Fortunately, we have Ben to put things in place so efficiently (thanks Ben).</p>
<p>I do not have a cat, but not-yet-released software have kicked by dog some times&#8230; poor boy.</p>
<p>[1] &#8230; easy for an experienced Linux user which feels comfortable with the command line and device files.</p>
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		<title>By: FredB</title>
		<link>http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/comment-page-1/#comment-1887</link>
		<dc:creator>FredB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/04/feisty-is-great-but-it-is-still-beta/#comment-1887</guid>
		<description>Beta ? For me, a product which is going to be launched within a week is no more a beta, but a RELEASE CANDIDATE product.

Stop saying a product is beta when it is tagged a release candidate on its roadmap.

I will stop using ubuntu because this is the kind of rotten kernel which can make any ubuntu user sick.

After having used for 3 weeks feisty without any problems - this is the more stable beta I&#039;ve ever used - I won&#039;t use it anymore.

Debian Etch IS THE WAY to go now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beta ? For me, a product which is going to be launched within a week is no more a beta, but a RELEASE CANDIDATE product.</p>
<p>Stop saying a product is beta when it is tagged a release candidate on its roadmap.</p>
<p>I will stop using ubuntu because this is the kind of rotten kernel which can make any ubuntu user sick.</p>
<p>After having used for 3 weeks feisty without any problems &#8211; this is the more stable beta I&#8217;ve ever used &#8211; I won&#8217;t use it anymore.</p>
<p>Debian Etch IS THE WAY to go now.</p>
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