Ubuntu Forums: Censorship and the Forums
Posted 1 year, 8 months ago at 7:33 pm. 14 comments
[These are my opinions, and may not reflect the opinions of other people on the forums]
Last week the Ubuntu Forums had issues come up where users were accusing Ubuntu Forum staff of censorship of posts, especially in the Backyard area of the forums. While all Ubuntu Forum Administrator and Staff respect the right of Free Speech, we do jail or remove posts to keep the forums focused on its technical support function, family friendly, spam-free, and safe from hate speech.
- Technical Support: The main mission for the Ubuntu Forums is provide a community-driven source of support for Ubuntu. This support is important to everyone, especially new users to Ubuntu. Everyone was new to Linux/Ubuntu at one point. When someone posts a beginners question and they get the response “God, your stupid” or “RTFM”, it does not educate the new user and may scare them away from the Ubuntu Community. We remove these post and may give a warning to the person.
- Family Friendly/Work Safe: The age kids start using computers and the Internet gets younger every year. The Ubuntu Forum needs to be a safe place for kids to explore and learn about Ubuntu. While we understand that nudity can be art, even a wallpaper nude lady with a Ubuntu tattoo, there are better place for it than the Ubuntu Forums.
[added: 23-Jan-2006: Also, I think it is important for the Ubuntu Forums to be safe to view at work.] - Spam-Free: Really, don’t we have enough spam. We do allow people to post services related to Linux or Ubuntu in the Community Marketplace section of the forums, but we still remove posts that we consider spam from there.
- Safe from Hate Speech: The Ubuntu Forums has 226,284 users as of 22-Jan-2006, which about 70% have been active in the last month. These users are from all over the world, from almost every race, country, religion and sexual orientation on the planet. While the forums welcome lively discussion, the forum’s staff may lock a thread were the debate becomes to heated. The mission of the Ubuntu Forums to provide a safe place for any one to get technical support on Ubuntu, no matter on the skin color or personal beliefs.
The Backyard is the place on the forums were the Ubuntu Forums staff take a more hands off approach, at least on how posts relate to Ubuntu/Linux. The Ubuntu Code of Conduit, Forum guidelines, and Backyard guidelines is still apply there. Some people consider that an infringement of free speech and censorship. Remember free speech does not allow people to force other people to hear their beliefs or does it protect hate speech.
There is an RFC about the future of the Backyard on next months agenda of the Forum Council. I would like to get feedback from the community on this topic.
mike(dot)basinger(at)ubuntu(dot)com
While I fully agree that some things happen at Ubuntu Forums that definitely shouldn’t, I have to strongly disagree with point 2. When nudity is kept reasonably tasteful, I can’t see any reason why it should be banned, given that kids can see much more potentially shocking thing everyday on TV, let alone the fact that I simply can’t understand how it can shock anyone at all, kids included and that when/if I ever have kids, I’ll be perfectly OK with them having a look at the nude art books in my library.
There are better places for it than the Ubuntu Forum ? But from that point of view, you could as well make it a support-only forum since there are better places for everything but it. If you want to keep a community alive, you have to accept the sides of it that don’t please you, not only the ones who do.
Long story short, I almost never go to the Backyard and have very little interest for things discussed there but I’m still 100% against it’s removal.
There may be nude art book in the library, but probably not in the computer book section.
What you have been stating is exactly what I like about the Ubuntu Forum and Community at large.
Compare to many other communities, I have found the forum a nice area to help people. Usually, they even thank you when you have helped them, which compare to other experience in other communities was really seldom!
Actually, this is a big part of what made me stay with Ubuntu.
I do agree with all your 4 points. And to answer to the first comment, I appreciate that for once, one does not see nudity there. When we go out there are some many advertisement with beautiful partly covered women. Well, nice but I get fed-up with those. Like Mike said, if I buy a Linux book, I do not find it next to some nudity art book…
As an addition to your point 4, I wanted to express a saying that one can hear French people use and goes back to the Revolution time. “Notre propre Liberté s’arrête là où commence celles des autres” which would translate in “Our own Liberty stops where the Liberty of others starts”.
So Free speech does not mean that everything can be told, it has also to do with not offending others (that is where their Liberty starts). Though, it does not seems that Napoleon (as a son of the Revolution) nor many revolutionaries of that time did respect this saying
+1 on HymnToLife’s comment. I don’t see why the human body, clothed or not, can be considered offensive or unsuitable for children. Remember, we are born naked…
One thing to consider about point 2, is that Ubuntu Forums needs to be SFW (safe for work). I use Ubuntu Forum all the time for technical support for parts of my job. While some companies would be understanding, many companies have a zero tolerance policy about anything close to porn on the computer screen.
Just thinking out loud here but would, say, a wallpaper of a beautiful naked woman (or man for that matter) with the Ubuntu logo be inappropriate in the Art & Design section?
Even in the Arts & Design section that would be inappropriate. We need to keep the forums safe for kids and safe for work. Also, some cultures view what is appropriate different. The Ubuntu Forum needs to serve the entire Ubuntu community, no matter of age or cultural differences, to the best of its ability.
I don’t understand why you would want to or need to post nudity on a mostly technical support forum.
The fact that younger kids might be on there to see it should help you refrain from using any kind of nudity, gruesome violence, vulgarity, etc. There are plenty of places around the Internet where your adult-natured spirit can be set free. You don’t need to also let it contaminate the Ubuntu Forums.
Oops, accidentally clicked post.
I like comment #3, by exposing people to something, you are assuming that they don’t mind being exposed to it. You are effectively taking away their freedom of choice when you just plop a nude picture in the middle of an otherwise clean thread.
RE: the actual article, “Safe from Hate Speech: The Ubuntu Forums has 226,284 users as of 22-Jan-2006″
I don’t see why nudity on a support forum is even an issue. It’s for support, technical and otherwise. I don’t even see why nudity would be an issue regardless of whether or not the human body is a beautiful thing.
Please, keep up the good work. I agree with all of your points above.
Lets keep the forums safe for work!
Nudity and “foul language” shouldn’t be an issue. Our kids are not sacred little vessels of purity and innocence that should be blindfolded and put in a padded room. Additionally, the human body is not obscene. Americans need to realize that.
In reply to comment #11 (http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/01/ubuntu-forums-censorship-and-the-forums/#comment-1495)
As Mike stated in comment #7, the problem of nudity or others can also be a cultural problem.
People visiting the forum might be coming from countries where nudity/vulgarity/violence can be shocking, or from a cultural/religious background where it is also.
We should not always think with only our Western/Atheist mind. Other people are leaving out there, and, what we have learned from the Humanist (our own culture), is that we should respect them and not impose our view on them.
Stating that there is no offence with nudity and that people should realise that, is in a way imposing your personal view/culture on somebody else.
The opposite can be also consider true, I mean that someone impose you not to expose nudity. But if you do not see nudity, it does not shock you. Whereas, if someone else sees it, it might. Politeness, education and I think common sense tell us that in such case, we should not expose it.
I think, that is interesting for all.